Key Takeaways

• Insider trading laws aim to prevent the misuse of privileged information rather than ensuring market fairness.
• Many on-chain analysts misinterpret market information, leading to flawed conclusions.
• Aave governance is seen as a potential success story for DAOs, highlighting its significance in DeFi.
• Aave Labs redirected significant fee revenue without community discussion, raising governance concerns.
• The Aave community reacted strongly to fee redirection, indicating a desire for more control over revenue sharing.
• Ownership of intangible assets like IP and brand requires a legal framework in DAOs.
• Governance uncertainty negatively impacts the value of significant crypto projects.
• The SEC’s lack of clarity has hindered growth and trust in crypto projects like Aave.
• Aave’s revenue model relies heavily on collecting a reserve factor from borrowers.
• Incentivizing front-end developers is crucial for sustainable user experiences in DeFi.
• ICOs are considered a better method for raising capital and distributing tokens compared to airdrops.
• The introduction of a second token is not seen as viable for the project.

Guest intro

Marc Zeller is founder of the Aave Chan Initiative (ACI), a delegate platform focused on governance participation and protocol development for Aave. Previously, he served as integrations lead at Aave and was instrumental in growing the protocol from its early Ethlend days through the launch of Aave v1 in 2020. Zeller has been a vocal advocate for decentralizing Aave governance and has led efforts to clarify token holder rights and the relationship between the Aave DAO and Aave Labs.

The purpose of insider trading laws

• Insider trading laws are designed to prevent the misuse of privileged information, not to ensure fairness among market participants.
• “The point of insider trading laws is not to stop the fairness in the market it is to stop someone expropriating information that they got from a privileged position” – Marc Zeller
• Many on-chain analysts misinterpret the nature of information and its implications in trading.
• “There’s a lot of threads on Twitter right now… they’re wrong” – Marc Zeller
• Accusations of insider trading related to the Maduro bet are unfounded and lack credible evidence.
• “Show me anything that shows that information was insider” – Marc Zeller
• The market where the money was made from the Maduro bet was not a traditional stock market but a prediction market.
• “The market where the money was made was not the Nasdaq it was Polymarket” – Marc Zeller
• Insider trading laws exist to ensure fairness in the market by preventing those with privileged information from exploiting others.
• “The intent of the law is to make sure the counterparty are not… there’s fairness to the counterparty” – Marc Zeller

Aave governance and community dynamics

• Aave governance represents a potential success for decentralized autonomous organizations (DAOs).
• “We see Aave governance as like one of the shining lights of you know maybe the style thing can actually work” – Marc Zeller
• Aave Labs redirected significant fee revenue without community discussion, raising governance concerns.
• “Aave Labs switched its front end swap integration… and there was no discussion or vote on this” – Marc Zeller
• The governance discussion around Aave was initiated by a token holder’s discovery of fee redirection.
• “It all started by a token holder… the community state well maybe we should have a discussion” – Marc Zeller
• The Aave community reacted strongly to the fee redirection, indicating a desire for more control over revenue sharing.
• “The reaction of AaveLab at that point was like well we do the front end that’s our project” – Marc Zeller
• Ownership of intangible assets like IP and brand requires a legal framework to be integrated into a DAO.
• “How do you even wrap IP and brand assets etcetera into a legal wrapper and then put that on chain” – Marc Zeller

Challenges in decentralized governance

• Ownership and safeguards are crucial in managing decentralized protocols to prevent control over revenue and brand.
• “Ownership and safeguard is important when you do a business… especially when that business is the DAO” – Marc Zeller
• A neutral legal wrapper for the DAO can protect assets and ensure that control remains with the community.
• “There’s gonna be a neutral legal wrapper that is the DAO that will own the asset” – Marc Zeller
• The uncertainty in DAO governance can hinder progress and innovation.
• “If we have no recourse and if we have no ownership of this kind of asset from the DAO” – Marc Zeller
• DAO governance can lead to inefficiencies and misunderstandings among stakeholders.
• “The DAO governance can be very inefficient and drama-filled” – Marc Zeller
• Game theory principles suggest that all actors will act in their own best interest, necessitating a balance of power.
• “Every actor will look for their best personal interest but what we need to do is to make sure the Nash equilibrium benefits everybody” – Marc Zeller

The importance of asset ownership in DeFi

• The swap feed is less than 10% of the global revenue for Aave, indicating that ownership of assets is more critical.
• “The swap feed itself is not so important… the real meat of this conversation is about ownership of those assets” – Marc Zeller
• Ownership of distribution channels is essential for maximizing revenue potential in decentralized protocols.
• “If there’s no ownership on the distribution channels… there’s a very hard limiter on the valuation model” – Marc Zeller
• The obligation to share off-protocol revenue with Aave holders should not be discretionary.
• “We’d prefer if it’s not discretionary right we’d prefer if you are obligated to do this thing” – Marc Zeller
• There is a hypothetical risk that the Aave front end could act against the interests of the DAO.
• “What happens in ten years’ time if you know the Aave front end is making a billion dollars a year” – Marc Zeller
• The domain should remain with the DAO and operated by it for better governance.
• “The domain should remain to the DAO and operated by the DAO” – Marc Zeller

Market sentiment and fundraising strategies

• The current sentiment in the market is extremely cynical and distrustful, making it hard to gain traction.
• “The timeline is like so cynical so burnt out so cooked” – Marc Zeller
• Changing terms in a fundraising effort can lead to dissatisfaction and distrust among participants.
• “We changed the terms it’s now 2,000,000… the momentum is not amazing” – Marc Zeller
• ICOs are a better method for raising capital and distributing tokens compared to airdrops.
• “ICOs are a much better way of raising capital… a much better way of distributing tokens” – Marc Zeller
• The decision to switch from ICOs to airdrops created negative incentives.
• “We stopped doing ICOs and started doing airdrops which just created like the most perverse bad incentives” – Marc Zeller
• The aggressive vocal minority in the Infinix ecosystem is likely driven by frustration over perceived value extraction.
• “This has gone like too far now” – Marc Zeller

Prediction markets and information dynamics

• Prediction markets should not be treated as mere sports betting platforms but as venues for aggregating diverse information.
• “The goal of prediction markets is not supposed to be a sports betting platform” – Marc Zeller
• Financial incentives in prediction markets can enhance the reliability of information.
• “Backing these statements with actual money you can actually make the information more reliable” – Marc Zeller
• Participation in prediction markets can provide valuable information that enhances decision-making.
• “It is valuable for everyone to know that information as soon as possible” – Marc Zeller
• The dynamics of prediction markets improve when information is shared quickly and widely.
• “The more information and the faster that information gets to the prediction market the better off” – Marc Zeller
• Misunderstanding prediction markets can lead to poor participation and misguided expectations.
• “If you don’t understand this dynamic… I’m sorry but you’re a fucking idiot” – Marc Zeller

The role of regulation and market integrity

• Creating laws around prediction markets can lead to unintended consequences that undermine their usefulness.
• “By creating this law where you can’t trade if you have information we have actually defeated the entire ruined it” – Marc Zeller
• The integrity of sports is crucial for maintaining interest in the leagues and their associated gambling markets.
• “If you have coaches and players that are rigging games people will lose interest” – Marc Zeller
• Laws and policies must be established to ensure fairness in gambling markets similar to those in sports.
• “Let’s define what happens if someone breaks those rules right let’s enforce them” – Marc Zeller
• The relationship between employees and companies regarding trading policies is complex and varies significantly.
• “Those are policies those are part of your employment contract” – Marc Zeller
• The evolution of nation-state laws will significantly impact how companies and citizens operate within their jurisdictions.
• “It’ll be really interesting to see how the nation state laws evolve” – Marc Zeller

Blockchain resilience and philosophy

• The resilience of a blockchain is crucial for user control and protection against risks.
• “Users retain control so that they can’t be deplatformed” – Marc Zeller
• Some blockchain networks lack the necessary resilience to support projects like Aave.
• “That’s actually what we did I’m one of the reason there’s no Aave on Solano” – Marc Zeller
• Ethereum’s core philosophy of credible neutrality allows for a more diverse ecosystem of applications.
• “Everyone built on Ethereum even though Vitalik didn’t like DeFi” – Marc Zeller
• An optimal environment for building applications is created by not picking and choosing winners.
• “There’s a reason that all of the Solana apps are basically the same” – Marc Zeller
• The existence of Tornado Cash is rooted in the desire for privacy in financial transactions.
• “Vitalik wanted to be able to spread his money without people like creating an entire billion dollar industry around it” – Marc Zeller