Google DeepMind finds moral debate training makes Gemma-4 4B decisive, not wiser
Photo: Steve A Johnson / Pexels
A new paper shows self-rewarded moral argumentation cut answer flipping in half while sycophancy and moral judgment barely budged
Alphabet Inc. (GOOGL) price
Full chart and statsLoading chart…
- Last close
- $325
- Close-to-close change
- +1.3%
- Market cap
- $4.0T (shares as of 2026-09-30)
- P/E (trailing)
- 17.0 (EPS to 2026-09-30)
- Annual revenue
- $402.8B USD (FY ended 2025-12-31) 10-K
- Annual revenue growth
- +15.1% (FY ended 2025-12-31 vs FY ended 2024-12-31) 10-K
- Annual net income
- 132,170,000,000 USD (FY ended 2025-12-31, attributable to the company) 10-K
- Annual operating margin
- 32.0% (FY ended 2025-12-31)
- Forward P/E
- Unavailable: no dated forecast source
Gloria daily close for session Oct 28, 2026. Market cap and trailing P/E use this close with the SEC share total and trailing diluted earnings, each dated next to its figure. Annual revenue, revenue growth, net income and margin show their own fiscal period and link the 10-K. Current context may postdate this article.
Alphabet Inc. and its peers
| Company | Price | Market cap | P/E (trailing) | Forward P/E | Annual revenue (USD) | Annual revenue growth | Annual net income (USD) | Operating margin |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
|
$325 | $4.0T | 17.0 | Unavailable | $402.8BFY ended 2025-12-31 · 10-K | +15.1%FY ended 2025-12-31 vs 2024-12-31 · 10-K | 132,170,000,000FY ended 2025-12-31, attributable to the company · 10-K | 32.0%FY ended 2025-12-31 |
|
|
$322 | $4.0T | 16.8 | Unavailable | $402.8BFY ended 2025-12-31 · 10-K | +15.1%FY ended 2025-12-31 vs 2024-12-31 · 10-K | 132,170,000,000FY ended 2025-12-31, attributable to the company · 10-K | 32.0%FY ended 2025-12-31 |
|
|
$612 | $1.6T | 20.9 | Unavailable | $201.0BFY ended 2025-12-31 · 10-K | +22.2%FY ended 2025-12-31 vs 2024-12-31 · 10-K | 60,458,000,000FY ended 2025-12-31, attributable to the company · 10-K | 41.4%FY ended 2025-12-31 |
|
|
$260 | $87.2B | 20.0 | Unavailable | $5.5BFY ended 2025-12-31 · 10-K | +70.0%FY ended 2025-12-31 vs 2024-12-31 · 10-K | 3,333,751,000FY ended 2025-12-31, attributable to the company · 10-K | 75.8%FY ended 2025-12-31 |
Missing figures stay unavailable. Forward P/E requires a dated source. Annual revenue, revenue growth, net income and margin come from each company's own 10-K, in US dollars, and each row shows that fiscal year. Revenue growth compares the fiscal year with the prior year stated in the same 10-K. Net income is the full year amount attributable to the company, or available to common stockholders where the filing states only that, or consolidated net income. Each row names its basis. Trailing P/E reads "Not meaningful" when the dated trailing diluted EPS is a loss or zero. An operating margin appears only when the filing states both the operating income and the revenue for the same year.
Sources: SEC filings, Gloria daily closes and CoinGecko. Oldest record refresh: Oct 28, 2026, 5:46 PM EDT. Refresh is not a price or filing date. Each row shows its price date and its annual fiscal period. Peers use industry code and company size, or editorial selection. Market cap multiplies that row price by the company share total the latest SEC filing states for every share class together. Trailing P/E divides it by trailing diluted earnings from SEC filings. Rolled earnings per share are approximate because share counts can change between periods. Both appear only when the SEC data carries its date, so they are estimates at one price date, not synchronized filing valuations. Not investment advice.
Token vs underlying stock
Current comparison for GOOGL. Historical observations may postdate this article.
GOOGLx token unit vs GOOGL share · USD
-10.2% over displayed period
● GOOGLx token┄ GOOGL stock: $324.89
Source: CoinGecko + Gloria · Retrieved Oct 29, 17:15 UTC
Methodology and data
Split-adjusted regular-session stock closes from the existing Gloria shared history, paired only with an observed token price within 45 minutes of 16:00 New York time. Up to 60 matched sessions. No interpolation or missing-date fill. Weekends and known early closes are omitted. Token units are not adjusted for issuer multipliers or dividend treatment. This compares quoted prices, not fair value, executable premiums or arbitrage returns. Solid line: token. Dashed line: stock. Exact quote times and values appear below. Historical observations. Retrieval refers to the token source. Token quote times use UTC. The fixed cohort shows its oldest member fetch.
| Date (UTC) | Token (USD) | Stock close (USD) | Token quote (UTC) |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2026-08-05 | 363.03 | 362.43 | 2026-08-05 20:00 |
| 2026-08-06 | 358.14 | 357.75 | 2026-08-06 20:00 |
| 2026-08-07 | 355.20 | 354.30 | 2026-08-07 20:00 |
| 2026-08-10 | 357.76 | 357.52 | 2026-08-10 20:00 |
| 2026-08-11 | 344.26 | 343.80 | 2026-08-11 20:00 |
| 2026-08-12 | 344.44 | 343.54 | 2026-08-12 20:00 |
| 2026-08-13 | 347.06 | 346.36 | 2026-08-13 20:00 |
| 2026-08-14 | 346.47 | 345.90 | 2026-08-14 20:00 |
| 2026-08-17 | 344.71 | 344.00 | 2026-08-17 20:00 |
| 2026-08-18 | 344.71 | 344.20 | 2026-08-18 20:00 |
| 2026-08-19 | 345.42 | 344.72 | 2026-08-19 20:00 |
| 2026-08-20 | 341.21 | 340.67 | 2026-08-20 20:00 |
| 2026-08-21 | 345.60 | 344.82 | 2026-08-21 20:00 |
| 2026-08-24 | 348.94 | 348.06 | 2026-08-24 20:00 |
| 2026-08-25 | 347.59 | 346.96 | 2026-08-25 20:00 |
| 2026-08-26 | 342.69 | 342.00 | 2026-08-26 20:00 |
| 2026-08-27 | 341.18 | 340.65 | 2026-08-27 20:00 |
| 2026-08-28 | 347.10 | 346.59 | 2026-08-28 20:00 |
| 2026-08-31 | 339.89 | 339.35 | 2026-08-31 20:00 |
| 2026-09-01 | 335.42 | 335.02 | 2026-09-01 20:00 |
| 2026-09-02 | 337.78 | 337.12 | 2026-09-02 20:00 |
| 2026-09-03 | 342.96 | 342.48 | 2026-09-03 20:00 |
| 2026-09-04 | 339.38 | 338.46 | 2026-09-04 20:00 |
| 2026-09-08 | 338.99 | 338.36 | 2026-09-08 20:00 |
| 2026-09-09 | 331.31 | 330.65 | 2026-09-09 20:00 |
| 2026-09-10 | 333.00 | 332.60 | 2026-09-10 20:00 |
| 2026-09-11 | 339.44 | 338.50 | 2026-09-11 20:00 |
| 2026-09-14 | 350.02 | 349.39 | 2026-09-14 20:00 |
| 2026-09-15 | 345.54 | 344.98 | 2026-09-15 20:00 |
| 2026-09-16 | 343.72 | 342.87 | 2026-09-16 20:00 |
| 2026-09-17 | 348.19 | 347.33 | 2026-09-17 20:00 |
| 2026-09-18 | 349.96 | 349.54 | 2026-09-18 20:00 |
| 2026-09-21 | 355.68 | 354.97 | 2026-09-21 20:00 |
| 2026-09-22 | 351.84 | 351.16 | 2026-09-22 20:00 |
| 2026-09-23 | 338.83 | 337.83 | 2026-09-23 20:00 |
| 2026-09-24 | 343.15 | 342.36 | 2026-09-24 20:00 |
| 2026-09-25 | 344.56 | 343.92 | 2026-09-25 20:00 |
| 2026-09-28 | 343.44 | 342.75 | 2026-09-28 20:00 |
| 2026-09-29 | 341.65 | 340.92 | 2026-09-29 20:00 |
| 2026-09-30 | 344.99 | 344.08 | 2026-09-30 20:00 |
| 2026-10-01 | 339.14 | 338.24 | 2026-10-01 20:00 |
| 2026-10-02 | 344.17 | 343.50 | 2026-10-02 20:00 |
| 2026-10-05 | 347.05 | 346.47 | 2026-10-05 20:00 |
| 2026-10-06 | 348.53 | 347.68 | 2026-10-06 20:00 |
| 2026-10-07 | 351.27 | 350.50 | 2026-10-07 20:00 |
| 2026-10-08 | 348.51 | 348.29 | 2026-10-08 20:00 |
| 2026-10-09 | 352.71 | 351.66 | 2026-10-09 20:00 |
| 2026-10-12 | 353.57 | 352.72 | 2026-10-12 20:00 |
| 2026-10-13 | 354.45 | 353.78 | 2026-10-13 20:00 |
| 2026-10-14 | 347.97 | 347.64 | 2026-10-14 20:00 |
| 2026-10-15 | 350.19 | 349.22 | 2026-10-15 20:00 |
| 2026-10-16 | 341.50 | 340.59 | 2026-10-16 20:00 |
| 2026-10-19 | 345.25 | 344.18 | 2026-10-19 20:00 |
| 2026-10-20 | 340.61 | 340.28 | 2026-10-20 20:00 |
| 2026-10-21 | 335.85 | 334.76 | 2026-10-21 20:00 |
| 2026-10-22 | 324.33 | 324.22 | 2026-10-22 20:00 |
| 2026-10-23 | 321.30 | 320.21 | 2026-10-23 20:00 |
| 2026-10-26 | 317.69 | 316.80 | 2026-10-26 20:00 |
| 2026-10-27 | 321.43 | 320.58 | 2026-10-27 20:00 |
| 2026-10-28 | 325.97 | 324.89 | 2026-10-28 20:00 |
Stock history: Gloria · Retrieved Oct 29, 00:31 UTC. Token history: CoinGecko GOOGLx.
Quoted token and share units can have different rights, multipliers and dividend treatment. This is not an executable premium or arbitrage signal.
Google DeepMind researchers trained Gemma-4 4B to win moral arguments. The model got noticeably more consistent. It did not get noticeably more ethical.
That gap is the whole point of the paper. Its title gives away the ending: “Consistency Is Not Validity: Self-Rewarded Moral Argumentation Makes Language Models Decisive but Pliable.” The work matters because a lot of AI safety thinking quietly assumes that a model that answers the same way every time is a model that reasons well. This study suggests those are two different things.
What the researchers actually did
The paper comes from Marius De Kuthy Meurers, Aaron Parisi, and Bernd Bohnet of Google DeepMind. It was submitted on October 21, 2026.
Their test subject was Gemma-4 4B, a model with roughly 4 billion parameters. It is built for edge devices and reasoning tasks, which means it is designed to run on hardware smaller than a data center rack.
The training method was self-rewarded reinforcement learning. The twist here is that the model handed out its own treats.
The raw material was moral dilemmas drawn from literature. The model had to produce arguments about these dilemmas and then evaluate them.
To keep the dilemmas honest, the team used an SMT solver. That is a logic tool that checks whether a set of constraints can all be satisfied at once. In this setup it verified that the competing priorities in each dilemma represented genuine conflicts, not fake ones with an obvious answer hiding underneath.
The training ran as a series of self-judged tournaments. Arguments competed against each other, and stronger argument quality earned the reward. The effect was especially pronounced under what the researchers call masked thinking conditions.
The numbers: decisive, but still a pushover
The headline result is about consistency. On ambiguous cases from the MoralChoice benchmark, the researchers measured how often the model changed its answer simply because the options were shown in a different order.
AI, tech, and the markets they move—in one daily briefing.
Daily. Free. Join 34,000+ readers across crypto, finance, and policy.
Before training, those presentation-order flips happened 14.3% of the time. After training, the rate fell to 6.6%. That is a cut of more than half.
Then come the other two measurements, which complicate the story.
Sycophancy, the habit of drifting toward whatever view the user expresses, barely moved. It went from 45.3% to 44.0%. The model became firm about the order of options but stayed roughly as eager to agree with whoever was typing.
Moral fable accuracy actually slipped. It went from 56.5% before training to 53.4% after. Training aimed at better moral arguments left the model slightly worse at getting the moral of a story right.
Put those three results side by side and the paper’s “decisive but pliable” label makes sense. The model learned to commit. It did not learn to hold its ground against a persuasive user, and it did not learn to judge better.
Where Gemma 4 fits
Google introduced Gemma 4 in April 2026, with an emphasis on efficiency and reasoning capabilities. The 4B version is one of the smaller members of the family.
What this means for AI builders and evaluators
The most direct implication is for anyone who grades models. Consistency is cheap to measure. You shuffle the inputs, rerun the question, and count how often the answer changes. Validity is much harder, because it requires knowing what the right answer is.
This study is a warning that the easy metric can improve while the hard one stands still or slides. A team that tracked only order flips would have declared victory. A team that also tracked sycophancy and fable accuracy would have seen a model that looks steadier without looking smarter.
The sycophancy result deserves particular attention. A model that is confident in its own framing but still bends toward the user’s stated view is an odd combination.
There is also a lesson about self-rewarding training loops. Letting a model judge its own outputs is attractive because it reduces the need for expensive human labels. But a model rewarding itself for persuasive arguments may mostly learn to be persuasive. The 56.5% to 53.4% dip in fable accuracy suggests persuasiveness and moral understanding can pull in different directions.
The use of an SMT solver to verify genuine conflicts shows the researchers worked to keep the training data rigorous. That makes the result harder to dismiss as a product of sloppy dilemmas. The divergence appears even when the inputs were checked for real tension.
For developers building on small models like Gemma-4 4B, the practical takeaway is to test along several axes at once. Order sensitivity, user pressure, and correctness on known answers each tell a different part of the story. Improving one does not guarantee movement in the others.
Disclosure: This article was edited by Diego Almada Lopez. For more information on how we create and review content, see our Editorial Policy.
More in Technology
See all-
Amazon, Intel, Coinbase and Reddit headline a crowded earnings night
-
Microsoft’s jumbo debt sale draws more than €115 billion in demand
-
Serval raises $150M at $3B valuation in Sequoia-led round
-
Former Palantir duo’s startup Dream reportedly raises $17M from a16z to challenge Autodesk
-
Google Cloud launches Knowledge Catalog with Looker, Snowflake and SAP semantic model support
-
Oracle reveals $80B AI infrastructure contract value at Investor Day

